tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1485744057295737706.comments2024-01-08T18:15:17.781+00:00The Tridentine RiteRubricariushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05050302650867319277noreply@blogger.comBlogger228125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1485744057295737706.post-64613717172579015462024-01-08T18:15:17.781+00:002024-01-08T18:15:17.781+00:00@Paul,
Thank you. I have not yet had a chance to ...@Paul,<br />Thank you. I have not yet had a chance to look in my library. I suspect I was actually thinking of something else as the quote you provide seems conclusive - unless there was a change sometime.Rubricariushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05050302650867319277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1485744057295737706.post-87104725812597302522024-01-07T20:51:27.832+00:002024-01-07T20:51:27.832+00:00This is from de Herdt, Tomus 2, pp. 475-476: Notan...This is from de Herdt, Tomus 2, pp. 475-476: Notandum, ubi sancta Maria est titularis sub quocumque mysterio aut titulo, ut assumptionis, nativitatis etc., ejus commemorationem in suffragiis non faciendam esse cum antiphona, versu et oratione propriƦ festivitatis, sed sufficere communem antiphonam cum versu et oratione inter suffragia positam, aliamque commemorationem non esse faciendam (1).Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08395971347119256329noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1485744057295737706.post-74967571311711098672023-12-20T18:45:08.839+00:002023-12-20T18:45:08.839+00:00Gavantus and De Herdt suggest otherwise. I'll...Gavantus and De Herdt suggest otherwise. I'll look into it when 'Ordo season' is over.Rubricariushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05050302650867319277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1485744057295737706.post-32496342729317849162023-12-18T15:48:23.150+00:002023-12-18T15:48:23.150+00:00This is Tridentine rubrics only, not the pre-DA 19...This is Tridentine rubrics only, not the pre-DA 1908? Because the 1908 rubrics apparently changed it so that the Sancta Maria suffrage is used, no matter the title; or did I read that wrongly? Page 18, Bottom paragraph: https://archive.org/details/BenzigerBrosEcclesiasticalDiary/page/n31/mode/2up?view=theaterPaulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08395971347119256329noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1485744057295737706.post-49166186033741591522023-12-17T16:34:05.697+00:002023-12-17T16:34:05.697+00:00@Paul,
Yes.@Paul,<br /><br />Yes.Rubricariushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05050302650867319277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1485744057295737706.post-53646879075266978252023-12-12T16:12:46.501+00:002023-12-12T16:12:46.501+00:00Would the Title of Our Lady replace the Sancta Mar...Would the Title of Our Lady replace the Sancta Maria Suffrage instead? For example, if the patroness of the Church were Our Lady under the title of Mother of God?Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08395971347119256329noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1485744057295737706.post-32967810041332532042023-12-03T10:09:55.861+00:002023-12-03T10:09:55.861+00:00@Marc in Eugene,
The Patron is of the place, coun...@Marc in Eugene,<br /><br />The Patron is of the place, country, city, diocese etc so, for example, in most dioceses of England it was St. George but in others St. Boniface or St. Cuthbert with St. George as a secondary Suffrage.<br /><br />Where the BVM is Patron then the <i>Sancta Maria</i> etc Suffrage would be omitted.Rubricariushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05050302650867319277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1485744057295737706.post-39407301215727883232023-12-01T22:55:24.101+00:002023-12-01T22:55:24.101+00:00The suffrage 'of the Patron' means of the ...The suffrage 'of the Patron' means of the parish church? or of the diocese? In my case, this means Our Lady (under different titles); the suffrage 'of the Patron' is here, then, omitted? But if the Sancta Maria succurre miseris is omitted how does one decide which antiphon, verse/response, and oration to use? Marc in Eugenehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04331547981498637474noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1485744057295737706.post-78748762220022068572022-12-04T12:18:50.451+00:002022-12-04T12:18:50.451+00:00What were the aims of the revision of readings?What were the aims of the revision of readings?Paulushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03754760013186745228noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1485744057295737706.post-53235407385210494922022-09-12T12:19:30.568+00:002022-09-12T12:19:30.568+00:00Ah, thank you. I thought that many changes couldn&...Ah, thank you. I thought that many changes couldn't have been made to the rubrics within the same year!Thomasnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1485744057295737706.post-40768490226062026092022-09-04T13:55:06.611+00:002022-09-04T13:55:06.611+00:00@Thomas,
Thank you for that. I did not have the l...@Thomas,<br />Thank you for that. I did not have the link to that digital edition. However, it is not actually 1568. If you look at the colophon the published date is 1575.Rubricariushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05050302650867319277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1485744057295737706.post-74468174065262472132022-08-21T09:04:11.252+00:002022-08-21T09:04:11.252+00:00Rubricarius,
Here's the link: https://archive...Rubricarius,<br /><br />Here's the link: https://archive.org/details/breviarium-romanum-1568/mode/2up<br />The Feast of the Holy Rosary is not listed.Thomasnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1485744057295737706.post-38501603240834594642022-08-19T17:01:21.776+00:002022-08-19T17:01:21.776+00:00@Thomas,
I would appreciate a link - I may have it...@Thomas,<br />I would appreciate a link - I may have it actually but to be sure. There were certainly some changes, eg. the insertion of the feast of the Rosary post-1571 but clearly some differences are clarifications of what were quite spartan rubrics. As you know I have been following the Vatican editions of BR1568 and MR1570.Rubricariushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05050302650867319277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1485744057295737706.post-20689426894459989782022-08-19T12:17:37.492+00:002022-08-19T12:17:37.492+00:00Dear Rubricarius,
I recently found a scan of a Br...Dear Rubricarius,<br /><br />I recently found a scan of a Breviary online: it only has the Bull of St Pius V at the beginning, it uses the pre-Urban VIII psalms, and seems to use the pre-Clementine Psalter. The calendar seems, from a quick scan, to be the same as that of 1568, but it has more detailed rubrics, and includes the rankings duplex I & II classis, as well as two grades of Sundays. Thomasnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1485744057295737706.post-75586130524525320142022-07-30T15:50:27.882+00:002022-07-30T15:50:27.882+00:00@Paulus, From the Common .@Paulus, From the Common .Rubricariushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05050302650867319277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1485744057295737706.post-81868472643289144342022-07-18T20:02:59.395+00:002022-07-18T20:02:59.395+00:00Antiphons Petrus et Joannes, etc. at Saturday vesp...Antiphons Petrus et Joannes, etc. at Saturday vespers or from the common?Paulushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03754760013186745228noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1485744057295737706.post-53556801725019606222022-07-02T05:07:49.626+00:002022-07-02T05:07:49.626+00:00Mea culpa!Mea culpa!Rubricariushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05050302650867319277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1485744057295737706.post-16371702701410699672022-06-20T05:17:51.930+00:002022-06-20T05:17:51.930+00:00The common preface?The common preface?Paulushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03754760013186745228noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1485744057295737706.post-42478872635904578632022-05-28T16:38:44.028+00:002022-05-28T16:38:44.028+00:00Thank youThank youAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1485744057295737706.post-61177092943780134002022-05-28T09:02:28.016+00:002022-05-28T09:02:28.016+00:00@Unknown,
I looked in a BR1628. From memory the ch...@Unknown,<br />I looked in a BR1628. From memory the change was from Leo XIII.Rubricariushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05050302650867319277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1485744057295737706.post-21624920997450686352022-05-28T08:08:55.744+00:002022-05-28T08:08:55.744+00:00Thank you for your reply. I did a bit of research ...Thank you for your reply. I did a bit of research as well: I found the Bute Breviary online, and in one of the rubrics there it states that Feasts of Our Lord outrank others: so would it not be second Vespers of the Ascension/Corpus Christi with commemoration of the Patron? Or was that a later change?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1485744057295737706.post-23036093460041445002022-05-28T06:57:32.365+00:002022-05-28T06:57:32.365+00:00@Anonymous,
I would agree in those circumstances f...@Anonymous,<br />I would agree in those circumstances first Vespers of the Titular/Patron. The editio princeps lacks tables of occurrence and concurrence as you are aware and one has to use the earliest subsequent editions to understand.<br /><br />Whilst it is evidently a later trend to give privileges to certain feasts by limiting commemorations in sung Masses etc I suspect some of the quirks Rubricariushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05050302650867319277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1485744057295737706.post-29447487997481495832022-05-22T18:30:37.776+00:002022-05-22T18:30:37.776+00:00Rubricarius,
If the titular of a church fell on a ...Rubricarius,<br />If the titular of a church fell on a major feast such as the Ascension or Corpus Christi, and would thus be transferred to the following day, which Vespers would be said: 2nd of the Ascension/Corpus Christi with commemoration of the titular; a capitulo; or first vespers of the titular with a commemoration of the preceding? I'm assuming it's the first but I can't seemAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1485744057295737706.post-29842043222488029242022-05-13T15:44:33.542+00:002022-05-13T15:44:33.542+00:00A typo.A typo.Rubricariushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05050302650867319277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1485744057295737706.post-16067669883712794482022-05-09T12:25:45.168+00:002022-05-09T12:25:45.168+00:00Many thanks for the very welcome wishes!
As we say...Many thanks for the very welcome wishes!<br />As we say, "viva san Marco"!Unam Sanctamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01304923667456374183noreply@blogger.com